122: Narrative vs. Reality -- Whitney, Jeremy & Michelle Discuss Brian Hales - Pt. Two

122: Narrative vs. Reality -- Whitney, Jeremy & Michelle Discuss Brian Hales - Pt. Two

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132problems


The second (and best) half of our first panel discussion on Brian Hales' false claims and opaque "transparency." We discuss Brian's oft repeated claim that no leader (or "keyholder" LOL) ever said why God "commanded" polygamy.


There is an embarrassment of riches when choosing quotes to expose just how seriously false this claim is. It was amazing to see what we each came up with. Good stuff in this one!


I'm hoping Brian and others will take notice that lies will not stand. We take these and all other scriptures seriously:


"Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—

These should then be attended to with great earnestness.

Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things." (D&C 123:13-15)

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/123?lang=eng


Links:

Orson Pratt, The Seer: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/2719f45e-8475-4fc4-823a-ab193aefa084/0/136


Brigham Young, July 14, 1855: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, pp. 264-268

https://jod.mrm.org/3/264


Erastus Snow October 4, 1857: Journal of Discourses, Volume 5, pp. 285-292

https://jod.mrm.org/5/285


Heber C. Kimball Feb 1 1857 : Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 207-213

https://jod.mrm.org/4/207


Brigham Young, July 6, 1862: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, pg. 322

https://jod.mrm.org/9/318


Brigham Young, August 9 1868: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 12, pg. 261

https://jod.mrm.org/12/255


John Taylor 1883: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 24, pg. 229

https://jod.mrm.org/24/227


John Taylor Revelation Sept 27, 1886: Brian Hales paper, https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/1886-Revelation-article.pdf


Joseph F. Smith, July 7, 1878: Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, pg. 28

https://jod.mrm.org/20/24


George Q. Cannon November 16, 1884: Journal of Discourses, vol. 25, pp. 360-371

https://jod.mrm.org/25/360


Brigham Young, August 19, 1866: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11 pg. 268

https://jod.mrm.org/11/266


December 19, 1891 Petition for amnesty

https://digitalcommons.law.ou.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7160&context=indianserialset


Chapters:

0:00 Intro


2:30 Polygamy damages marriages


10:05 Brian Hales: We don’t know why God commanded polygamy


20:15 Orson Pratt's reasons for polygamy


25:10 Prostitution or polygamy?


42:45 Brigham Young’s reasons for polygamy


50:00 Polygamy required for exaltation?


59:50 Erastus Snow: a woman’s lord is her husband?


1:02:20 Heber C. Kimball: thousands of wives!


1:03:50 Brigham Young: monogamy is no part of heaven


1:09:30 Brigham Young: polygamy for moral salvation of world


1:11:15 Joseph F. Smith: polygamy essential for highest blessings


1:16:00 George Q. Cannon: few righteous men, so we need polygamy?


1:18:00 Bloodlines


1:19:29 Q12, John Taylor: polygamy necessary to salvation


1:32:51 Brian Hales' narrative destroys faith


1:34:25 Final thoughts

Jaksot(167)

47: Finding Mother God: Carol Lynn Pearson, Part 2 | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

47: Finding Mother God: Carol Lynn Pearson, Part 2 | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems The second part of my conversation with the legendary Carol Lynn Pearson. Carol Lynn shares more profound insights, shares several of her poems about Mother God, and describes her most recent book, The Love Map. I highly recommend her books, particularly her newer books, The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy, Finding Mother God (which we will cover in greater depth in part 2,) and The Love Map. https://carollynnpearson.com/

17 Helmi 20231h 6min

46: Christmas Message | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

46: Christmas Message | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Some thoughts on Christmas. Please listen to our family's musical gift starting at 36:56. Merry Christmas!

17 Helmi 202340min

45: The Feminine Divine: Carol Lynn Pearson, Part 1 | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

45: The Feminine Divine: Carol Lynn Pearson, Part 1 | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Carol Lynn Pearson has been contributing to important conversations in Mormonism since the 1960's. She is truly a legend in her own time who has used her powerful voice to bring awareness to some of the most challenging and sensitive issues we face as a church and as people. I highly recommend her books, particularly her newer books, The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy, Finding Mother God (which we will cover in greater depth in part 2,) and The Love Map. https://carollynnpearson.com/

16 Helmi 20231h 11min

44: The Workings of Church History w/ Patrick Mason | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

44: The Workings of Church History w/ Patrick Mason | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems It was amazing to have the opportunity to sit down with Patrick Mason and ask him some of my most pressing questions about church history and about his perspective on polygamy, the scriptural canon, belief, and how we can engage in the church. Patrick's books, which I highly recommend, are available in audio at DeseretBook.com, or in print from Amazon, and pretty much everywhere else. Planted: Belief and Belonging in an Age of Doubt https://deseretbook.com/p/planted-belief-and-belonging-in-an-age-of-doubt?queryID=8bac48a199653b6cce8ca9b4986773e2&variant_id=126475-paperback Restoration: God’s Call to the 21st-Century World https://deseretbook.com/p/restoration-gods-call-to-the-21st-century-world?queryID=f7b2d347eb948c46d66c7140de83ca6f&variant_id=190930-paperback Proclaim Peace: The Restoration's Answer to an Age of Conflict https://deseretbook.com/p/proclaim-peace-the-restorations-answer-to-an-age-of-conflict-maxwell-institute?queryID=f7b2d347eb948c46d66c7140de83ca6f&variant_id=194870-paperback

16 Helmi 20231h 17min

43: Family Estrangement and Personal Growth | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

43: Family Estrangement and Personal Growth | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems The Holidays are a wonderful time for families -- when families feel wonderful. For those of us struggling with difficult family relationships, holidays can feel like rubbing salt in an already painful wound. How can we best navigate family estrangement, whether it is with our adult children or with our parents and siblings? What is the purpose of families -- especially when they seem to cause more pain than joy? My best friend and I discuss the painful situations we are both struggling through in our families in a desire to provide insight, understanding, direction, hope, peace, and hopefully, greater connection.

13 Helmi 20231h 59min

42: Emma and Joseph | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

42: Emma and Joseph | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Who was Emma Smith? What do we really know about her, and her relationship with God and her prophet husband? What can the lives, character, and interactions of Emma and Joseph teach us about their relationship, and polygamy? This one is long, but extremely important. Sources: "Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith" by Linda King Newell and Valerie Tippets Avery "First: The Life and Faith of Emma Smith" by Jennifer Reeder https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-october-1842/13 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-emma-smith-and-the-relief-society-31-march-1842/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-emma-smith-4-april-1839/1#full-transcript https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-from-emma-smith-7-march-1839/1#full-transcript https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2008/09/my-dear-and-beloved-companion-the-letters-of-joseph-and-emma-smith?lang=eng https://www.josephsmithjr.org/emma-smith-an-elect-lady-and-mother-in-israel/ https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/saints-v1/39-the-seventh-trouble?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1992/08/my-great-great-grandmother-emma-hale-smith?lang=eng https://archive.org/details/TheSaintsHerald_Volume_26_1879/page/n287/mode/2up?view=theater

12 Helmi 20231h 45min

41: The Atonement of Jesus Christ (and Defending a Sister) |132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

41: The Atonement of Jesus Christ (and Defending a Sister) |132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Does The Book of Mormon preach a gospel of works or a gospel of grace? (The answer is critically important for would-be disciples of Christ.) Where should we look for truth and direction? Inside or outside? And do we want a church where there is room for people who disagree? Or should people say, "My way or the highway," to one another? This perhaps one is long, but perhaps the most important of all.

12 Helmi 20231h 44min

40: How to Talk to Children About Problems in the Church? | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems In response to the many times people have asked for advice about how to talk to their children about the things they are learning, my two oldest children, Christian and Lincoln, sit down with me to talk about their experience being raised with evolving understandings of the church and gospel of Jesus Christ. Please listen to the end -- the final testimony is the best part.

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