How To Get Out Of Your Head: Joseph Goldstein and Sam Harris on Nirvana, Non-Clinging, Non-Duality, and the Best Way to Meditate

Which is the best path to freedom?

Joseph Goldstein is a cofounder of the Insight Meditation Society and the Barre Center for Buddhist Studies, both in Barre, Massachusetts. He is the author of many books including, most recently, Dreamscapes of the Mind.

Sam Harris is a neuroscientist, author, podcaster and the proprietor of the Waking Up app.

In this episode we talk about:

• What the term "non-duality" means — and why it matters to ordinary meditators.
• The multiple meanings of non-duality across Buddhist traditions (Theravāda, Mahāyāna, Vajrayāna).
• How different traditions (and even different teachers within them) define samsara and nirvana.
• The non-duality of the observer and observed — and how that insight can alleviate suffering.
• Whether understanding non-duality is practically relevant for reducing stress and emotional reactivity.
• The evolution of Buddhist teachings over time and how interpretations differ across countries.
• Sam's argument that the non-dual view can be directly experienced in everyday consciousness — and that realizing it ends unnecessary suffering.
• Joseph's emphasis on non-duality as one path among many toward the ultimate goal: the end of suffering.
• How metaphysics and direct experience intersect, and whether doctrinal differences are "self-confirming."
• The concept of "non-clinging" as the real heart of Buddhist practice — and how it relates to non-dual awareness.

Related Episodes:

• How To Suffer Less: Joseph Goldstein, Sam Harris, and Dan Harris on the Buddha's Eightfold Path

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