Daine: The Underground Pop Darling on Flops, Fame, and Why She's Glad She Didn't Blow Up at 19

This week we're joined by Daine — and if you don't know her yet, you will soon. She's the Australian artist who's the darling of the pop underground, and her album drops November 6th.

We talk about being 16 and sitting across from a major label exec who told her she was going to be bigger than Billie Eilish. It didn't happen. She's grateful. We talk about what she calls her three-tier music success pyramid — quality at the bottom, tolerance for failure in the middle, and the thing most people won't admit at the top. She explains it better than we could, and we all believe in the best Martin Scorsese quote you've heard in a while.

We also get into the album itself, which was made when she and her producer were deeply in love, and is being rolled out now that they're exes. "It's like a child of divorce," she says. "And it's this really pure, beautiful thing."

Plus: the nepo baby allegations she cannot shake (her parents are, in her words, "radical Marxist academics"), why being conventionally attractive works against you in indie music, what it was like watching Nina go from first-show friend to Coachella, and Ben's encounter with Russell Crowe at a New York restaurant urinal that changed his life.