Why China is Primed for Economic Carnage Worse than the US Financial Crisis of 2008

Why China is Primed for Economic Carnage Worse than the US Financial Crisis of 2008

In episode 8 of ECON 102, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss the factors brewing up a major crisis for China’s economy, and what this means for the US and other international powers. If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/turpentine We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- Sponsors: GIVEWELL | DAFFY | NETSUITE Have you ever wondered where your donation could have the most impact? GiveWell has now spent over 15 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities they’ve found in global health and poverty alleviation. Make informed decisions about high-impact giving. If you’ve never donated through GiveWell before, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match, go to givewell.org and pick “Podcast” and enter Econ 102 at checkout. Daffy is the most modern and accessible donor-advised fund, making it easier to put money aside for charity. You can make your tax-deductible contributions all at once or set aside a little each week or month. And you don’t just have to donate cash, you can easily contribute stocks, ETFs, or crypto. Plus, you never have to track receipts from your donations again. It’s free to get started and Econ 102 listeners get $25 towards the charity of their choice. Daffy is offering Econ 102 listeners a free $25 for the charity of their choice when they join Daffy https://www.daffy.org/econ102 NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. -- Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:37) Noah’s observations from his trip to Japan (03:03) Chinese Economic Carnage (04:09) Who is affected? (04:59) How will falling resource prices affect inflation? (14:12) China’s upcoming recession (16:41) China’s building investments need to stop (20:12) China’s paradox of thrift (20:57) China’s boomer republican leaders (21:39) What can China’s growth look like from here? (27:11) What are China’s options for allaying the unrest? (28:44) Extend and Pretend (29:26) Balaji was wrong about China as diplomatic power (33:18) China owns a Sri Lankan city now (34:04) When Noah was most bullish on China’s future: the Hu Jintao era (36:33) Xi JinPing as Stalin; Steve Ballmer (40:00) The revolution of rising expectations theory in American (44:52) Spelling out our biggest fears about China (47:23) Successes in recent alliances: Japan and Korea alliances, India, Vietnam, (51:00) What are we watching for next? This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Avsnitt(112)

Fixing the US Economy: the Debt, Inequality, Biden/Trump Economic Predictions

Fixing the US Economy: the Debt, Inequality, Biden/Trump Economic Predictions

In this week’s episode, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg dive into various econ topics and tackle listener questions! They cover: government spending and the national debt, discussion on taxation, wealth taxes and economic outcome of the next U.S. election, as well as differences in respect and status in the United States and Japan, and lessons learned from deficit spending. This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co. _ SPONSOR: HARMONIC 🧲 Learn why Craft, Bedrock, NEA and 100s more trust Harmonic’s data to source deals. Harmonic is the most complete startup database, finding new companies as soon as they incorporate and tracking them through IPO. Head to https://bit.ly/harmonicturpentine and make sure to mention Turpentine VC during your demo. _ SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: Econ102@Turpentine.co _ Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more, Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0epyYBAxLeF0PsNagdDJAJ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/company-breakdowns/id1743119197 _ Links: Noah Smith's Noahpinion https://www.noahpinion.blog _  X / TWITTER: @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) _ Timestamps: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:02) Noah’s Japan trip (02:33) Why is the U.S. doing so much deficit spending? (08:04) Post-COVID economic response (14:52) Levers of dealing with the National debt (21:27) 2024 Election Speculations: Economic outcomes of Trump vs. Biden (25:26) Pros and cons of a Wealth tax (30:35) Sponsor: Turpentine (32:34) Impact of Funding the IRS and repealing Trump's tax cuts (33:01) Reducing government spending (41:11) Addressing economic inequality in the U.S. (51:26) Wrap

10 Apr 202452min

Analyzing Economies Round 3: Middle East, Africa, South America, and North America

Analyzing Economies Round 3: Middle East, Africa, South America, and North America

This episode is a continuation of analyzing the economies around the world, with Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg focusing on the Middle East, Africa, South America, and North America. They discuss the economic challenges and solutions in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, as well as Latin America’s drug problem and Canada’s economic stagnation. This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co. _ SPONSOR: HARMONIC 🧲 Learn why Craft, Bedrock, NEA and 100s more trust Harmonic’s data to source deals. Harmonic is the most complete startup database, finding new companies as soon as they incorporate and tracking them through IPO. Head to https://bit.ly/harmonicturpentine and make sure to mention Turpentine VC during your demo. _ SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: Econ102@Turpentine.co _ Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more, Spotify Apple _ Links: Noah Smith's Noahpinion https://www.noahpinion.blog _  X / TWITTER: @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) _ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:32) Egypt's economic challenges (05:25) How rich is Saudi Arabia (13:57) Sponsor: Turpentine (15:13) Africa’s population growth and demographic dynamics (32:49) Africa’s economic potential (38:58) Mexico's manufacturing and security woes (43:48) Brazil's potential in South American manufacturing (48:01) Latin America's fight against inequality (55:12) Dominican Republic's economic success (01:00:51) Canada's economic stagnation (01:05:33) Wrap

2 Apr 20241h 8min

Analyzing Economies: England, France, Germany, Poland, Turkey, and the EU/European Immigration

Analyzing Economies: England, France, Germany, Poland, Turkey, and the EU/European Immigration

In our second installment of Analyzing the Economies Around the World, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg cover Europe and Turkey. They discuss the UK's productivity issues, France's nuclear energy investments, Germany's weaknesses, Poland's economic success, Turkey's economic policies, and immigration challenges across the EU and Europe. This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co. _ SPONSOR: HARMONIC 🧲 Learn why Craft, Bedrock, NEA and 100s more trust Harmonic’s data to source deals. Harmonic is the most complete startup database, finding new companies as soon as they incorporate and tracking them through IPO. Head to https://bit.ly/harmonicturpentine and make sure to mention Turpentine VC during your demo. _ SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: Econ102@Turpentine.co _ Recommended Podcast: Company Breakdowns Each episode of Company Breakdowns dives into S-1s and series B-and-beyond companies, interviewing founders and investors to break down the companies. First episode is on Rubrik - which just IPO'd. Coming up this season: Databricks, Reddit + more, Spotify Apple _ Links: Noah Smith's Noahpinion https://www.noahpinion.blog _  X / TWITTER: @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) _ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:30) UK's economic challenges (07:25) France's nuclear power success (12:02) Germany’s trust problem (24:28) Sponsor: Turpentine (25:36) Italy’s stagnant and declining economy (26:33) Poland's economic rise (31:24) Poland responding to external threats (32:25) Europe's immigration challenges (45:13) EU's future despite economic and regulatory obstacles. (52:34) Turkey's economic landscape and prospects (58:17) Wrap

27 Mars 202459min

Analyzing Economies: USA, China, Japan, Russia, India, Korea, and more

Analyzing Economies: USA, China, Japan, Russia, India, Korea, and more

In this episode, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg talk about the world's biggest economies including US, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Russia, Australia, and more, looking at things like inflation, debt, industrial policy, and population challenges. They talk about what each country does well and where they might struggle, and offer ideas about what could happen next. This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co. _ SPONSOR: HARMONIC 🧲 Learn why Craft, Bedrock, NEA and 100s more trust Harmonic’s data to source deals. Harmonic is the most complete startup database, finding new companies as soon as they incorporate and tracking them through IPO. Head to https://bit.ly/harmonicturpentine and make sure to mention Turpentine VC during your demo. _ SEND US YOUR Q's FOR NOAH TO ANSWER ON AIR: Econ102@Turpentine.co - RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Autopilot explores the adoption and rollout of AI in the industries that drive the economy and the dynamic founders bringing rapid change to slow-moving industries. From law, to hardware, to aviation, Will Summerlin interviews founders backed by Benchmark, Greylock, and more to learn how they're automating at the frontiers in entrenched industries. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6YQZkKHN7EP2yWedAvSxBC?si=18377c69a2804333 Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/autopilot-with-will-summerlin/id1738163836. - SPONSOR: BRAVE Get first-party targeting with Brave's private ad platform: cookieless and future proof ad formats for all your business needs. Performance meets privacy. Head to https://brave.com/brave-ads/ and mention “MoZ” when signing up for a 25% discount on your first campaign. - Links: Noah Smith's Noahpinion https://www.noahpinion.blog -  X / TWITTER: @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) - TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:03) U.S. Economy: Trends and Concerns (08:01) Transition to China's Economy: Massive Property Bust (15:28) Sponsor: Brave | Turpentine (21:36) Segue to Japan's Economy: Key Hub of the Electronics Manufacturing (30:11) Korean Economic Struggles (33:05) South Korea's Technological Capabilities and International Relations (34:14) Exploring Taiwan's Economy and Challenges (36:22) Indonesia's Manufacturing Shift (37:55) Vietnam's Economic Strategy and Development Needs (40:31) India's Poverty Reduction and Infrastructure Investments (44:26) Pakistan Economic Mismanagement (48:38) Philippines: Underrated Investment Destination (49:33) Transition to Australia: The Progressive Utopia (52:02) Russia Economy at War (59:59) Wrap

21 Mars 20241h 1min

AI's Influence on the Economy with Nathan Labenz

AI's Influence on the Economy with Nathan Labenz

In this episode, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg are joined by Nathan Labenz, co-host of The Cognitive Revolution Podcast, to deep dive into AI's impact on our economy and society. They discuss how AI might affect the job market and society, drawing comparisons to past economic changes. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co. - RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Sourcery by Molly O'Shea Sourcery by Molly O’Shea brings the conversations founders and investors have behind closed doors into the light. Subscribe for upcoming episodes with: Delian Asparouhov of Founders Fund and Varda Space, and Chris Power of Hadrian. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Ni3Tese9CtZa3oxpCjgTg YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SourceryVC/ - SPONSOR: NETSUITE NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. – Links: Noah Smith's Noahpinion https://www.noahpinion.blog The Cognitive Revolution podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1669813431 –  X / TWITTER: @labenz (Nathan) @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) –   TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (00:39) AI and the Future of Employment (03:48) The Intersection of AI, Robotics, and Biotech (04:53) Economic Disruption (06:33) Future of Jobs in an AI-Dominated World (08:22) AI's Impact on Economy (10:36) Pessimism Surrounding AI's Economic Impact (12:21) Comparative Advantage in the AI Era (14:02) AI Replacing Human Jobs (19:19) Sponsor: Netsuite (19:30) New Social Contract in the AI Era (34:21) Human Wages in an AI-Dominated Economy (39:31) Impact of AI on Job Market (41:40) Fear of AI Taking Over Human Jobs (47:47) Role of Government in AI Development (50:06) Potential Risks and Benefits of AI (53:14) Future of AI and Its Social Impact (58:45) Fear of Totalitarian States and AI (01:05:35) The Need for a Positive Vision for AI (01:11:18) Wrap

13 Mars 20241h 15min

How We Build More Housing with Brad Hargreaves

How We Build More Housing with Brad Hargreaves

In this episode of Econ 102, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg are joined by Brad Hargreaves, the founder of Common, co-founder of General Assembly, and writer of Thesis Driven. They discuss the future of real estate and housing in America, the impact of regulations, and the potential of new cities. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Thesis Driven Leader Series Thesis Driven Leader Series, hosted by Brad Hargreaves, features conversations with the leading voices at the intersection of real estate, cities, innovation, and the built world. Guests include Jan Sramek, Dror Poleg, Spencer Rascoff, and more. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thesis-driven-leader-series/id1724813949 Substack: https://www.thesisdriven.com/p/introducing-the-thesis-driven-leader _ Sponsor: NETSUITE NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. – Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co – Links: Noahpinion’s https://www.noahpinion.blog – X / TWITTER: @bhargreaves (Brad) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @noahpinion (Noah) @Econ102_Podcast (Econ 102) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) – TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro (00:28) Understanding Real Estate Economics (01:29) Role of Technology in Real Estate (02:45) 2008 Financial Crisis and Real Estate (06:31) Role of Banks in Real Estate (10:14) Future of Real Estate and Housing (13:21) Sponsor: NetSuite (14:38) Impact of Regulations (20:22) Real Estate Architecture’s Evolution (29:48) Role of Developers in Real Estate (40:21) Challenges of Building State Capacity (51:53) Potential of New Cities (01:00:33) Success of New Urbanist Towns (01:01:53) Wrap This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

5 Mars 20241h 3min

Building a Multi Racial Society

Building a Multi Racial Society

This week on Econ 102, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg explore the changing racial dynamics in the U.S., highlighting the importance of national identity, and the recent role of social media within that evolution. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. RECOMMENDED PODCAST: History 102 with WhatifAltHist Every week, creator of WhatifAltHist Rudyard Lynch and Erik Torenberg cover a major topic in history in depth -- in under an hour. This season will cover classical Greece, early America, the Vikings, medieval Islam, ancient China, the fall of the Roman Empire, and more. Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36Kqo3BMMUBGTDo1IEYihm Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/history-102-with-whatifalthists-rudyard-lynch-and/id1730633913 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@History102-qg5oj _ Check out Erik's new show Request for Startups featuring a rotating cast of founders and investors (including Dan) sharing their requests for startups they want to exist in the world, and also their stories of navigating the idea maze in different sectors so founders don’t have to reinvent the wheel anymore. The first episode is out now - we over better dating apps, references as a service, and WeWork for productivity * Watch and Subscribe on Substack: https://requestforstartups.substack.com/p/receipt-based-dating-reference-checks * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/request-for-startups-with-erik-torenberg/id1728659822 * Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/739L1LR32QI2XyoZlRh5nv _ We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. Sponsors: NETSUITE NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. – Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co – Links: Noahpinion’s “This is not a good way to fight racism in America” on Substack: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/this-is-not-a-good-way-to-fight-racism – X / TWITTER: @eriktorenberg (Erik) @noahpinion (Noah) @Econ102_Podcast (Econ 102) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) – TIMESTAMPS (00:33) Episode Preview (01:40) Google Gemini (03:53) Has history repeated itself? (07:05) A cultural since Trump's residency (10:11) Inspiration for Star Wars (12:30) SPONSOR: NETSUITE (13:40) The aftermath of the Nixon era (22:56) Social media’s role (28:13) Ethnic Enclaves on economic outcomes (29:43) The controversial ideas of Kendi (30:14) Different searches for national identity (38:35) The Challenges of multiracial societies (40:54) History’s role in shaping national identity (47:08) The Impact of education on racial identity (51:40) Concluding thoughts on Americans’ identities This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

29 Feb 202454min

Putin, Tucker, and Russia

Putin, Tucker, and Russia

This week on Econ 102, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss Tucker Carlson’s interview with Vladimir Putin, the state of Russia's economic and military, and the country's relationships with the West. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. RECOMMENDED PODCAST: History 102 with WhatifAltHist Every week, creator of WhatifAltHist Rudyard Lynch and Erik Torenberg cover a major topic in history in depth -- in under an hour. This season will cover classical Greece, early America, the Vikings, medieval Islam, ancient China, the fall of the Roman Empire, and more. Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36Kqo3BMMUBGTDo1IEYihm Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/history-102-with-whatifalthists-rudyard-lynch-and/id1730633913 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@History102-qg5oj _ Check out Erik's new show Request for Startups featuring a rotating cast of founders and investors (including Dan) sharing their requests for startups they want to exist in the world, and also their stories of navigating the idea maze in different sectors so founders don’t have to reinvent the wheel anymore. The first episode is out now - we over better dating apps, references as a service, and WeWork for productivity * Watch and Subscribe on Substack: https://requestforstartups.substack.com/p/receipt-based-dating-reference-checks * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/request-for-startups-with-erik-torenberg/id1728659822 * Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/739L1LR32QI2XyoZlRh5nv _ We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. Sponsors: NETSUITE NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. – Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co – LINKS: - Noahpinion “Russia is not actually a very nice place to live” on Substack: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/russia-is-not-actually-a-very-nice - “The Machine” Bert Kreischer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paG1-lPtIXA&t=1s – X / TWITTER: @eriktorenberg (Erik) @noahpinion (Noah) @Econ102_Podcast (Econ 102) @TurpentineMedia (Turpentine) – TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Episode Preview (01:50) Tucker Carlson's Interview with Putin (04:45) Misconceptions about NATO Expansion (09:44) Poland's Economic Success and Russia's Fear (12:41) Religion in Poland and Russia (16:20) Lessons from Poland's Economic Success (19:12) SPONSOR: NETSUITE (20:55) Tucker's Misconceptions of Russia (26:56) Disparity in Post-Communist Societies (28:27) The Controversy of the EU (29:24) The Real Economic State of Russia (32:08) Putin's Legacy (39:58) Russian Sanctions (51:17) The Future of Warfare: Drones (53:13) Russia's Threat to Europe This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

21 Feb 202457min

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