50: Polygamy Narrative vs. Reality | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

50: Polygamy Narrative vs. Reality | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

https://www.patreon.com/132Problems


The current church narrative found in the gospel topics essays is problematic. It is far from comprehensive or transparent, but beyond that, it is not consistent with past church teachings, the historical sources, the scriptures, or many current church teachings and statements from recent leaders. Yet, despite the fact that the things claimed in the essays have not been spoken by leaders, taught in general conference, and certainly not accepted as church doctrine, some claim that church members in good standing may not publicly disagree with them.

Let's look at some of the problems with that claim, and just a few of the problems with the narrative -- namely, the claim that reasons for polygamy were never given and that polygamy was not taught to be necessary for exaltation.


Sources:

Brigham Young, vision, Feb. 17, 1847, in Brigham Young Office Files, 1832–1878, Church History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah

https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/content/praise-to-the-man?lang=eng


President Nelson quotes: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/04/revelation-for-the-church-revelation-for-our-lives?lang=eng


https://twitter.com/NelsonRussellM/status/1232682006305103872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1232682006305103872%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thechurchnews.com%2Fleaders-and-ministry%2F2020-02-26%2Fpresident-nelson-restoration-invitation-2020-hearhim-joseph-smith-first-vision-bicentennial-175302


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/how-do-you-hearhim-a-special-invitation?lang=eng


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/45nelson?lang=eng


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng


August 1852 Special Conference,

Orson Pratt, pg 14-22, Brigham Young, pg 25-26 https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/NCMP1820-1846/id/17334


Disavowal of Pratt's "First Cause": https://newspapers.lib.utah.edu/details?id=2598412


Brigham Young July 14, 1855 (JoD 3:266)

Brigham Young July 6, 1862 (JoD 9:322)

Brigham Young August 19,1866 (JoD 11:269)

Joseph F. Smith July 7, 1878 (JoD 20:24-31)


Scriptures:

Moroni 7: 15-16

Raise up seed: 1 Nephi 7:1, Jacob 2:25 - 27

3 Nephi 26:10

Deuteronomy 25:5

Genesis 38

Avsnitt(167)

151: Repenting of Polygamy - A Conversation with Steve Baer

151: Repenting of Polygamy - A Conversation with Steve Baer

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsSteve's podcast, "Latter-day Strength"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/latter-day-strength/id1661691405

5 Jan 1h 48min

150: What Joseph's Family Really Thought -- About POLYGAMY

150: What Joseph's Family Really Thought -- About POLYGAMY

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsLinks: Original Keystone Video (Please comment and post this response!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozVY0okFvVs T.E. Lloyd quote: http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/MO/Miss1881.htm Joseph's Vision of Alvin (D&C 137): https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/visions-21-january-1836-dc-137/1Hyrum's May 14, 1844 Sermon: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/e8d44719-6577-4503-86b8-1641367be6b9/0/0 Joseph's August 1842 statements about Hyrum and Emma: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/reflections-and-blessings-16-and-23-august-1842/2 Hyrum April 8, 1844 Sermon Transcript: https://web.archive.org/web/20230303190436/https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/transcript/minutes-and-discourses-6-9-april-1844-as-reported-by-thomas-bullock?print=true#6225492112447048673 Testimonies of Joseph Smith's Descendants: https://josephsmithsr.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Testimonies-from-the-Smiths-of-the-Book-Mormon.pdf Copy of Letter to B.H. Stenhouse: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/c875ccf4-42e8-4336-a4a1-608a0e61f880/0/602?lang=eng Katharine's Letter: https://www.latterdaytruth.org/pdf/100704.pdf William Smith 1845 Letter to Orson Hyde: https://warsaw.advantage-preservation.com/viewer/?t=30053&i=t&by=1845&bdd=1840&bm=11&bd=26&d=11261845-11261845&fn=warsaw_signal_usa_illinois_warsaw_18451126_english_1&df=1&dt=2 William Smith 1893 Letter: https://www.latterdaytruth.org/pdf/100207.pdf (pg 423) Lucy Mack Smith Biography: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lucy-mack-smith-history-1845/5 Scripture Central on Joseph Smith Sr. https://scripturecentral.org/evidence/joseph-smith-sr Katherine Salisbury Testimony: https://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/BroBill/KStestimony.htmJoseph Smith August 16, 1843 Letter to Emma: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-emma-smith-16-august-1842/1

29 Dec 202450min

149: Polygamy, the Cockroach in the Sundae - with Kathy Bence

149: Polygamy, the Cockroach in the Sundae - with Kathy Bence

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsReasons to Rescind YouTube Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/@katherinebencePolygamy: A Nonsensical Part of the Restorationhttps://www.nonsensicalpolygamyrestored.com/Michael Mathews II's websitehttps://SectionOneThirtyTwo.wordpress.com/Rational Bible explanation of Genesis 3:16https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e2b4646306d0d3f836f157e/t/65e69e36e9d94e3b6e656b50/1709612600550/The+Rational+Bible.pdf

22 Dec 20241h 18min

148: James Whitehead, W. W. Blair, and the Dangers of Cherry-Picking

148: James Whitehead, W. W. Blair, and the Dangers of Cherry-Picking

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsLinks: Orson Pratt, The Seer: https://archive.org/details/seereditedbyorso01unse/page/30/mode/2up Jennie Anderson Froiseth, Women of Mormondom: https://archive.org/details/womenofmormonism00froi/page/110/mode/2up?q=hand 1869 Affidavits (Emily and Eliza Partridge): https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/f73e1f69-32d6-4e09-a2f7-f6eed3bd8316/0/2 Blair's Memoirs: https://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1900s/1908Blair.htmWhitehead Autumn Leaves Sermon: https://www.latterdaytruth.org/pdf/100050.pdfNewspaper Report of RLDS Conference: http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/MO/Miss1881.htm James Whitehead Obituary: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/71a298a9-e364-463b-9c53-176d57d5cd4d/0/2 D Michael Quinn Dialogue Article: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/joseph-smith-iiis-1844-blessing-and-the-mormons-of-utah/#_ftn66Elder Hinckley 1981 Conference Talk: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1981/04/the-joseph-smith-iii-document-and-the-keys-of-the-kingdom?lang=eng William Smith 1845 Warsaw Signal Article: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/f2028077-aba7-46dc-aa11-1adcb48ae348/0/0 RLDS Affidavits, Saints Advocate 1885: https://www.latterdaytruth.org/pdf/100135.pdfJoseph Fielding Smith on Hyrum: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-joseph-fielding-smith/chapter-7-joseph-and-hyrum-smith-witnesses-for-christ?lang=eng

15 Dec 20241h 32min

False Narratives and Weak Sources: Plural Marriage for Children pt 2

False Narratives and Weak Sources: Plural Marriage for Children pt 2

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsLink to the Plural Marriage lesson for kids:https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-stories-2025/44-plural-marriage?lang=eng Joseph's anti-polygamy changes to the Bible: 1 Kings 3:14KJV: And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.JST And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, then I will lengthen thy days, and thou shalt not walk in unrighteousness as did thy father David.2 Samuel 12:13KJV: And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.JST: And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath not put away thy sin that thou shalt not die.1 Kings 11:4 KJV: For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.JST: For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with the Lord, his God, and it became as the heart of David, his father.1 Kings 11:6 KJV: And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father.JST: And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, as David, his father, and went not fully after the Lord.1 Kings 11:33KJV: Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped [other gods] and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.JST: Because that they have forsaken me and have worshipped [other gods] and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and my statutes, and my judgments; and his heart is become as David, his father; and he repenteth not as did David, his father, that I may forgive him.

14 Dec 20241h 17min

The Importance of Age Appropriateness and Parental Consent: Plural Marriage for Children pt 1

The Importance of Age Appropriateness and Parental Consent: Plural Marriage for Children pt 1

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsLink to the Plural Marriage lesson for kids:https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-stories-2025/44-plural-marriage?lang=eng

14 Dec 20241h 15min

147: Integrity and Transparency - A Response to Brian Hales

147: Integrity and Transparency - A Response to Brian Hales

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsLinks:INTERVIEW NOTES ON BRIAN'S OWN WEBSITE: https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/JSIII-Inteview-with-Emma-Smith-1879-from-EMD-Vogel.pdf I WISH I had known about this clip to include in the episode. Listen to Shermer's explanation of Joseph Smith's polygamy from 6:10 - 8:00: https://youtu.be/x2qwRJT4WGY?t=370 (This is one of the most cited people in the book -- so apparently who Brian is finding common cause with in his discussion of Joseph's polygamy.)Study referenced: https://communities.springernature.com/posts/experiences-with-open-science-practices?badge_id=nature-human-behaviour Book Review: https://physicsworld.com/a/lee-mcintyre-the-rant-lit-philosopher-whose-angry-new-book-is-peppered-with-flaws-and-contradictions/

8 Dec 20241h 42min

146: Consider Yourself as Eve with Meghan Farner

146: Consider Yourself as Eve with Meghan Farner

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problemsConsider Yourself as Eve: A Guide to Spiritual Development for Women (and the Men Who Love Them), by Meghan Farnerhttps://amzn.to/41e5jCm

1 Dec 20242h 28min

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