109: Escaping Utah - Part 1 with Cheryl and Dan Clute

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems A huge thanks to Gwendolyn Wyne for this conversation. I strongly recommend her articles and youtube channel. Links: Gwendolyn Wyne’s YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@gwendolynwyne Gwendolyn’s published writing: https://gwendolynwyne.com/writing/ Her preferred brand of feminism: https://squaretwo.org/aerow.html Church news article about the non-Latter-day Saint biography on Joseph Smith Jr that is in the works: https://www.thechurchnews.com/history/2022/9/9/23343356/john-turner-joseph-smith-papers-conference-keynote-church-history

18 Nov 20231h 53min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems One of our best loved parables is also, in my opinion, one of the least understood. But it doesn't need to be that way, if we will start really studying it out. Seeing how connected polygamy is to this parable blew my mind. Is it possible that Jesus prophesied and warned us of the false doctrine of Mormon Polygamy almost 2,000 years before it appeared?

18 Nov 20231h 37min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems As a life-long and a long-time member of the RLDS church, Cheryl and Dan Clute experienced the RLDS theological changes and church division personally -- at ground zero. It is fascinating and enlightening to hear their experience. They have spent decades helping to spread information about their perspective on the restoration with their LDS brothers and sisters, and they have been extremely willing to help me, which I appreciate immensely. This fun conversation both taught me a ton and gave me a lot of food for thought. Links: Restoration Bookstore: https://restorationbookstore.org/ Kirtland Temple now charging for tours: https://www.kirtlandtemple.org/general-tour#:~:text=To%20take%20a%20tour%2C%20there,the%20Kirtland%20Temple%20Visitor%20Center. CoC needing to sell historic and real estate assets to fund retirement plans: https://youtu.be/3f4AIL6xKvs?t=1345 https://www.deseret.com/2012/5/6/20502015/lds-church-buys-farmland-haun-s-mill-far-west-kirtland-property-from-community-of-christ#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20Church%20recently%20acquired%20operating,as%20the%20Joseph%20Smith%20Sr. https://thirdhour.org/forums/topic/42344-lds-church-buys-property-including-hauns-mill-and-far-west-burial-ground/ https://www.ksl.com/article/20288313/lds-church-acquires-more-historical-sites https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/21/35-million-book-of-mormon-manuscript-sale-to-lds-church-called-the-biggest-game-changer-in-mormon-history/ Elder Oakman's testimony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dz8lzo7HQ8&feature=youtu.be

18 Nov 20232h 14min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Comparing Joseph Smith's supposed polygamy of the actual Nauvoo polygamists sheds invaluable light on the validity of the claims against Joseph. Peter Brown joins me as we continue the response to recent explanations of Joseph's lack of children, Peter clearly demonstrates the evidence that first convinced him that claims of Joseph's polygamy make no sense and are not plausible. Please share this evidence so it can have the same effect on many others. As always, I welcome anybody to respond to these facts and this evidence. Links: Response to claims of Joseph's astrological based conceptions (pgs 89-90) https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2504&context=byusq Joseph Smith's Monogamy: http://downloads.miridiatech.com.s3.amazonaws.com/remnant/JosephSmithsMonogamy.pdf Infant Mortality Chart: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041693/united-states-all-time-child-mortality-rate/ A few of many links to research male infertility: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK562258/#:~:text=%5B2%5D%20Male%20infertility%20is%20defined,40%25%20of%20all%20infertility%20cases. https://academic.oup.com/biolreprod/article/66/6/1781/2723958 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1395314/

18 Nov 20232h 9min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Accusers of Joseph try desperately to write off the inconvenient fact that he had no children with any supposed polygamist wife, even to the point of making truly ludicrous arguments. This episode will once and for all lay to rest the ridiculous claims that Joseph or his supposed wives practiced any form of birth control, or worse, any form of abortion. Tracing the timeline of contraceptive technology in America as compared to the timeline of Joseph's supposed polygamy is research that should have been done before these claims were ever made. This episode, responding directly to the claims made by Lindsay Hansen Park, Radio Free Mormon, and Bill Reel, will clearly reveal that it would be far more plausible to claim that Joseph and his wives had access to electric lighting, telephones, and automobiles, than the claims they make to try to explain away his lack of children in polygamy. Links: (Partial list of resources. There are way too many to include all.) Erlich/Simon Wager video: https://www.corbettreport.com/ehrlich/ https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_produce_any_children_by_his_plural_wives%3F_The_case_against_children#cite_note-3 Mormonism Live: https://youtu.be/SV3f57VZuqo?t=8802 RFM: https://youtu.be/p_PdHBG6fCU?t=1827 Richard Carlile, Every Woman's Book: https://archive.org/details/b30347397/page/42/mode/2up Robert Owen, Moral Philosophy: https://archive.org/details/moralphysiologyo00owenrich https://www.jstor.org/stable/2765924?read-now=1&seq=4#page_scan_tab_contents http://what-when-how.com/birth-control/owen-robert-dale-1801-1877-birth-control/ Charles Knowlton, Fruits of Philosophy: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/38185/38185-h/38185-h.htm https://daily.jstor.org/charles-knowlton-the-father-of-american-birth-control/#:~:text=In%20Chapter%20II%2C%20%E2%80%9COn%20Generation,less%20anxious%20about%20accidental%20pregnancy http://www.sandragulland.com/spanish-fly-a-deadly-viagra-of-the-past/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/madame-restell-the-abortionist-of-fifth-avenue-145109198/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/pill-timeline/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion#CITEREFDoan2007 https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801428494/contraception-and-abortion-in-nineteenth-century-america/#bookTabs=1 Sarah Pratt: http://www.defendingjoseph.com/2017/07/sarah-pratt-revisited.html https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/why-joseph-not-sire-children-plural-wives/#fnref:disputed_by_blake_ostler

18 Nov 20232h 25min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems It is impossible to overstate the central importance of William Clayton to everything we think we know about Joseph's polygamy. We will be dedicating two complete episodes to this interesting and troubling man and his highly problematic journals and claims. Sincere thanks to Jeremy Hoop and his diligent research in preparing these presentation. Pull up some oranges, raisins, or ginger lozenges and join us a for a deep dive into the journals and the mind of William Clayton -- the linchpin of Joseph's polygamy. Links: William Clayton Journal: https://archive.org/stream/WilliamClaytonJournal/WilliamClaytonJournal_djvu.txt William Clayton 1874 Affidavit: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/d091310b-4d88-43dd-a141-bb7ec1579934/0/0 James Allen Biography of William Clayton: https://archive.org/details/trialsofdisciple00alle 1842 High Council Minutes: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/journal-december-1841-december-1842/28#full-transcript Catherine Lewis Testimony: https://archive.org/stream/CatherineLewisNarrative/Catherine%20Lewis%20Narrative_djvu.txt

17 Nov 20233h 11min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Polygamy is a topic that definitely seems to have the ability to bring out the worst in people. Polygamy and lying absolutely go together They have from the beginning, and sadly, they apparently still do today. This podcast is necessary to set the record straight, and to reveal who has integrity and values truth, and who deals in lies. Also, who has the courage of their convictions and is not only willing, but eager to engage, and who has to resort to name-calling, avoiding engagement, and outright lying in order to try to defend their perspective. I hope it will be instructive.

17 Nov 20231h 22min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems What does ChatGPT reveal about the polygamy narrative? I won't give it away, but it is AMAZING! Stay tuned until the end (or skip forward to the end) so you don't miss it. In the meantime, what is happening to the evidence that helped solidify the polygamy narrative and the assumption that Joseph MUST have been the author of polygamy? These stories are amazing! It is definitely time to reassess our certainty. Links: ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/ William Clayton’s Journal (worth reading!): https://archive.org/stream/WilliamClaytonJournal/WilliamClaytonJournal_djvu.txt Orange Wight Autobiography: http://boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/OWight.html Helen Mar Kimball story of Flora (pgs 407-408): https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/rsc/id/42488 Brian Hales version of Flora: https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/flora-ann-woodworth/ Josephine Lyons statement: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/eea4b82c-00ca-450e-8561-b3f238fe8115/0/0 Ugo Perego article: https://www.deseret.com/2016/6/13/20590178/joseph-smith-apparently-was-not-josephine-lyon-s-father-mormon-history-association-speaker-says Sylvia Lyon Brian Hales page: https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/sylvia-sessions/#link_ajs-fn-id_4-5660 Eliza and the Prophet's Gold Watch by Jenny Reeder: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23289250?read-now=1&seq=13#page_scan_tab_contents Eliza and Brigham's relationship: https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-lion-and-the-lioness-brigham-young-and-eliza-r-snow/ For info on ChatGPT, hallucinations and bias search any of those terms and you will find dozens of articles.

17 Nov 20231h 41min