109: Escaping Utah - Part 1 with Cheryl and Dan Clute

My long-awaited interview with Don Bradley! He requested that we first discuss faith, before going to the topic of how historians approach history in our second conversation, and then digging into the actual sources in our third conversation. This was a great beginning! Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems

28 Feb 20241h 49min

***Apologies for the minor errors in the previous upload of this video. They have been corrected in this version of Episode 104.*** If you ever thought land deeds could be used to prove William Clayton's journal is legit, and that Joseph was a polygamist, just watch this. Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems Links: Episode 102: Deep in the Weeds of the Deeds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXmALUrDTnc Emma's Deed: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-emma-smith-and-others-12-july-1843-draft/1 Hyrum's Deed: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-john-smith-10-february-1844/1#source-note Trustees Book of Land Deeds B Maps: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-b-4-august-1842-8-december-1845/241 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-b-4-august-1842-8-december-1845/268 William Clayton Lawsuit: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/introduction-to-clayton-v-e-w-rhodes-et-al/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/transcript-of-proceedings-between-21-october-1843-and-6-february-1844-clayton-v-e-w-rhodes-et-al/5 Clayton doing deals "on behalf" of Joseph Smith: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/bond-from-chauncey-robison-22-october-1842/1#historical-intro https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/assignment-to-william-clayton-1-june-1843/1 Double registered Deed: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-julia-m-smith-and-others-17-march-1842-as-recorded-in-hancock-county-deeds/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-emma-smith-and-others-12-july-1843/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-julia-m-smith-and-others-31-december-1841/1#historical-intro Emma Registering deeds?: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/introduction-to-e-smith-administratrix-of-the-estate-of-js/1 Deeds Emma supposedly registered July 8, 1844: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-from-daniel-h-and-eliza-robison-wells-4-february-1843/1#source-note https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-from-orson-and-marinda-nancy-johnson-hyde-10-february-1843/1#source-note Other Deeds Registered July 8, 1844: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/bond-from-smith-tuttle-and-john-gillet-7-july-1843/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-smith-tuttle-john-gillet-and-horace-hotchkiss-7-july-1843/1#source-note https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/mortgage-11-july-1843-coolidge-administrator-of-the-estate-of-js-assignee-of-buckwalter-v-william-law/1#historical-intro Oct 5, 1843 "draft": https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-draft-1-march-31-december-1843/143

6 Feb 20242h 29min

Thank you Rock for this great conversation! We go all over the place! We discuss his early blog about Joseph's polygamy, his recent blogs about Israel and Palestine, the current situation of the church, and much more. Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems Links: Why I’m Abandoning Polygamy, by Rock Waterman https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-im-abandoning-polygamy.html Doctrine and Covenants section 101 - 1835 edition https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/doctrine-and-covenants-1835/259 Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy, by Richard and Pamela Price https://restorationbookstore.org/pages/joseph-smith-fought-polygamy-online Joseph Smith and Polygamy: Persistence of a Myth, by Rock Waterman https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2020/01/joseph-smith-and-polygamy-persistence.html "How Mormons Should Think About The War In Israel," by Rock Waterman https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2023/10/how-mormons-should-think-about-war-in.html Episode 71: One “Polygamy Denier’s” Response to Bill Reel, RFM, and Brian Hales https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE9_2aQajno R. McKay White article on the Kirtland Safety Society https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/august-2009/the-kirtland-safety-society Episode 78: RLDS Church History and Defending Joseph w/ Cheryl and Dan Clute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X904zl5ZliE Episode 94: Historical Malpractice Part 1 – A Conversation with Whitney Horning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n_mDIsV6LI Topics Index: 0:00 Intro 0:01:30 Rock's blogpost on polygamy 0:37:20 Interview begins 0:46:40 Rock's views on the LDS church 1:04:55 Thoughts on Israeli & Palestine 1:44:55 Joseph's monogamy

6 Feb 20242h 22min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132Problems Part 1 on Deeds, where we go deep into laying the foundation of what the deeds were, how they worked, where they are recorded, and what sources we rely on to connect them to polygamy. Part 2 will go into specifics and look at the problematic anomalies of the two very important July 12, 1843 deeds -- the deed to Emma and her children, and the hidden deed to Hyrum. Part 3, with statistics professor John Kidd will respond directly to Bill Reel's claims and attempted statistical analysis. Links: 84: Exposing the Expositor Part 2 - Polygamy, Game Over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCjAOUxNzso&t=4613s 85: Proving William Clayton's Journals are NOT Contemporaneous w/Jeremy Hoop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a91kvdLKSU&t=144s 70: The *Godfathers* of Mormon Polygamy with Jeremy Hoop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDg7YofI6gQ&t=4932s Maid of Iowa Links: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lease-to-david-s-hollister-2-december-1843/1?highlight=maid%20of%20iowa#source-note https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/agreement-with-arthur-morrison-and-others-15-june-1844/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/introduction-to-moffet-administrator-of-the-estate-of-js/1?highlight=maid%20of%20iowa Deed to Partridge siblings: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-eliza-partridge-and-others-10-february-1843/1 Nauvoo registry of deeds:https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/nauvoo-registry-of-deeds-deed-record-book-a-1840-1843/1 Trustees Land Book A: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-a-11-september-1839-30-april-1842/1 Trustees Land Book B: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-b-4-august-1842-8-december-1845/1 Susan Easton Black compilation: https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/532853/?offset=0#page=1&viewer=picture&o=info&n=0&q= ) Joseph Smith and the Legal Process: In the Wake of the Steamboat Nauvoo, Oaks and Bentley: https://byustudies.byu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/19.2OaksBentleyJoseph-bc083b1e-95a0-4c14-acff-9ad779106c17.pdf Nauvoo: Kingdom on the Mississippi: Hardcover: https://amzn.to/4b6bHhl Paperback: https://amzn.to/3vLwNS7

6 Feb 20242h 8min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132Problems

6 Feb 20241h 40min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132Problems4 Kimberly's blog: https://www.ldsgenerations.com/2021/05/follow-me/?fbclid=IwAR0hu4m_9JOdsqrJA4YT3szoxrl1jzsnzsKEds3P6Sb1TM511RA7g3Z6H0M Reflections of Emma (by Buddy Youngreen, NOT Tate.) : https://amzn.to/3Hkxa8E https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780970800800 Oaks/Bentley article, Joseph Smith And Legal Process: In the Wake of The Steamboat Nauvoo: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1927&context=byusq *Nauvoo archeologists Paul Debarthe and David Debarthe are showing that Nauvoo was in fact not a swamp. Those claims grew out of exaggerated stories. Another false Nauvoo narrative that will be fascinating to "dig" into! Biography of Alexander Hale Smith: https://restorationbookstore.org/products/90101013

6 Feb 20242h 50min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132Problems4 Links: Brigham Young on fast offerings, December 8 1867, JoD vol 12 pgs 111-116 (Discussion of fast offerings starts last paragraph on page 15) https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/9881 Church officially refuses to support vax exemptions: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/10/lds-church-wont-help/?fbclid=IwAR3i_fPJl9e-pd-6AjKbONi6A7qhNPhpp2Ugu41YrkcoPQpjLHw6B8NqhJ4 The Great Apostameme Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/229493556586606/

6 Feb 20241h 40min

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132Problems4 Brian Lang and Taylor Child give me a crash course in astrotheology. It is amazing to see how truly all things testify of Christ, and how Christ testifies of all creation. This was such a fun and mind blowing discussion. I am excited to learn more. The Ancient Cosmic Clock https://www.youtube.com/@ancientcosmicclock The Ancient Cosmic Language (Amazon link) https://amzn.to/48E7boS

4 Feb 20242h 8min