117: William Henry Harrison Sagers - More Historical Malpractice

117: William Henry Harrison Sagers - More Historical Malpractice

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132problems


Recommended videos:

Episode 1: Introduction - A Surprising Beginning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKkK-1mgEkY


Ep. 107: God Is Not a Polygamist!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WXFFYd6mXA


Ep. 42: Emma and Joseph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KtLnYFu9c


Ep. 113: Exonerating Emma - Repenting of Our False Traditions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLN8Er1_A


Ep. 83: Why It Matters - LDS Polygamy Trauma w/ Heather and Lisa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BonCxTzzdfY

(Excerpt - Lisa's Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjyYTw8RFqk)



LINKS for this episode:

Joseph Smith brings charges against Harrison Sagers:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/charges-against-harrison-sagers-preferred-to-william-marks-21-november-1843/1


Sarah Miller realizes Joseph never condoned Chauncey Higbee's polygamy:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/testimony-against-chauncey-l-higbee-25-may-1844/3


Wilford Woodruff - Joseph condemns adultery, polygamy, etc. "in toto":

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/remarks-25-november-1843-as-reported-by-wilford-woodruff/1


Draft version of Woodruff account above with revisions:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-draft-1-march-31-december-1843/155#X97D4A60E-8864-4C8A-BD10-6370A770B4AB


Final version of Woodruff account above:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-e-1-1-july-1843-30-april-1844/152


Chargers against Sagers by his wife Lucinda:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/charges-against-harrison-sagers-preferred-to-the-first-presidency-and-quorum-of-the-twelve-apostles-circa-10-april-1844/1#source-note


Gary Bergera's unsupported assertions (see p. 88):

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43200169?read-now=1&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


Brian Hales lists Sagers as someone taught polygamy by Joseph Smith:

https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/history/polygamy-causes-martyrdom/



Chapters:

0:00 Introduction

3:45 Sagers charged w/ using Joseph's name to justify adultery

7:00 Sagers tried to seduce his wife's younger sister

12:15 Sarah Miller affidavit - Chauncey used Joseph's name

25:35 Some thoughts on church courts

32:10 Grover and Johnson - polygamous high priests

36:20 Aaron Johnson's many wives

38:30 Thomas Grover's fraudulent affidavit

48:20 Joseph condemns adultery and any such thing

1:06:40 Lucinda Sagers charges her husband with polygamy

1:20:55 Harrison Sagers's many wives

1:29:00 Did Joseph authorize Sagers's polygamy?

1:37:00 Unsupported assertions from historians

1:48:35 Another historian's unsupported claims

1:54:15 The sandy foundation of "settled" history

Avsnitt(167)

23: David's Polygamy: Part 2 | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems In this second of a three part series on King David we investigate Samuel and his involvement in the dissentions, instability and conflicts that plagued the kings of Israel. We discuss the beginnings of David's polygamy and discuss the outcomes for several of his children. We also explore the tragic life and experiences of Michal, the daughter of Saul and first wife of David.

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22: David's Polygamy: Part 1 | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

22: David's Polygamy: Part 1 | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems In this episode we lay the foundation to better understand the government of Israel and how David became the polygamist king of Israel. Acknowledging the difficulty of Old Testament stories and morality, we discuss possible ways to engage with and find value in the text.

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21: Fatherhood, Polygamy, and the Grace of God | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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Please consider supporting this podcast: https://www.patreon.com/132Problems What is the impact of polygamy on children? In the past decades the critical role of fathers and the destructive impacts of fatherlessness have been studied in depth. What can this teach us about polygamy and its ongoing consequences? How is it still affecting us today? Links: President Nelson first press conference question about women: https://youtu.be/keqbSQtqyOk?t=1097 Polygamy Interview Series (These interviews are all worth watching. This one in particular demonstrates the effects of polygamous fatherlessness) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFVjLhNoq2g

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20: What About Eternal Marriage? | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

20: What About Eternal Marriage? | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Since polygamy and eternal marriage are both based in the idea of sealings taught in section 132 can we let go of one and still hold on to the other? Does exaltation depend on either? How does it all work? Links: President Hinckley on Larry King Live https://youtu.be/jAsNMWwRXvs?t=672 President Nelson Press Conference https://youtu.be/C8Cd3vcWYnc?t=1537 Elder Cook Face to Face https://youtu.be/0bqeAc3bIYA?t=545 John Adams, Thomas Jefferson Correspondence https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-13-02-0297 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/99-02-02-7026 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-13-02-0418#X4329CAAD-C9DE-4C76-9518-7946BE85CE65 King Follet Discourse https://emp.byui.edu/jexj/new/talks/talks/JS%20KingFollettDiscourse.pdf

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19: House of Cards | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems So often our testimonies in the church are built up with if-then statements and formulas. It may not be until our foundations are questions that we realize they are built upon sand and we are in danger of the domino effect when we start using critical thinking and exploring truth. Does this all or nothing approach serve us well? Does it need to be this way? I address a listener's message on this topic and share some of my personal experiences struggling through the unsettling question of "What does this mean?" Links: Stake Conference Talk https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TrVmQGWTvGKiv4aH0e_FsvsVB9UU6Cv2sZW09r7VIxs/edit?usp=sharing

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Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems 132 includes many troubling threats of destruction toward women. We'll look at the purpose and tone of these threats and compare them to the rest of scripture and what we know of the nature of God. Links: Patreon Link: https://www.patreon.com/132Problems (From last week) Lot's Wife Guest Post: https://www.feministmormonhousewives.... Lot's Wife Sunstone Presentation (Session 162. Scroll down and click the play button below Session 162): https://sunstone.org/audio-files-from... William Clayton Journal: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/d091310b-4d88-43dd-a141-bb7ec1579934/0/2 Scriptures: D&C 132: 41, 52, 54, 63, 64 Isaiah 43:15, 40:28, 2 Nephi 9:5, Helaman 14: 12, Mosiah 3:8 Genesis 6:7, 13, 17 (Moses 8:26, 30) 2 Nephi 23:22 (Isaiah 13,) 3 Nephi 21:14 (Micah 5,) Alma 37:25 (1 Cor. 4:5) John 8: 3-11

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17: Lot's Wife and Apologies/Explanations | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems Lot's Wife Guest Post: Claiming Our Heroines – The Untold Story of Lot’s Wife http://wp.me/p2Jm0S-5WE Lot's Wife Sunstone Presentation (Session 162. Scroll down and click the play button below Session 162): https://sunstone.org/audio-files-from-the-2014-salt-lake-symposium/

9 Okt 20223min

16: People or Property | 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 https://www.patreon.com/132Problems In God’s eyes are women people or property? Section 132 repeatedly refers to women as property. Is that consistent with the rest of scripture? What can we learn from Eve and other women in scripture? Is there a way to reconcile these two perspectives? Why does it matter? Scriptures: D&C 132:34-65 2 Nephi 2:14-16, 22-26 Genesis 2:21-24 Genesis 3:16 / Moses 4:22 D&C 121:34-42 1 Nephi 5:1-6 1 Nephi 17:20 Alma 19:10, 16-18 Mosiah 19:13 Mosiah 21:17 Alma 14:10 Alma 46:12 Jacob 2:31-35 Links: 1835 D&C 101:2 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/appendix-3-statement-on-marriage-circa-august-1835/1 Brigham Young Quote https://scriptures.byu.edu/jod/pdf/JoD05/JoD05_0210.pdf Brigham Young Quote https://archive.org/details/JoDV08/page/n185/mode/2up

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