38 - When a Cult Doesn't Look Like a Cult: Kacey Baker on Recruitment & Control

When you hear the word "cult", what comes to mind?

For many of us, it's the infamous groups we've seen in documentaries and true crime programmes: Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, the Manson Family. But what if our understanding of cults is much narrower than it should be?

In Episode 38, we're joined by Kacey Baker, creator and host of the award-nominated podcast Cult Vault, to explore the psychology of cults, recruitment and coercive control, and why almost anyone could be vulnerable to manipulation.

Kacey has spent years speaking to cult survivors, researchers and experts, and has completed postgraduate research into the psychology of coercive control. We talk about what actually makes a group a cult, why "how easy is it to leave?" is often the clearest way to spot a cult from the outside, and how manipulation can begin with something as seemingly innocent as finding friendship, community or a place where you feel you belong.

We discuss love bombing, isolation, dependency, loaded language, the "us versus them" mentality and why leaving isn't as simple as "just walking away".

But coercive control doesn't only exist within traditional religious cults.

We explore how the same mechanisms can appear in abusive relationships, workplaces, gangs, wellness movements and online communities — and how social media has created new opportunities for recruitment, manipulation and control.

We also look at the warning signs that friends and family might notice, what happens when someone finally leaves, why recovery can be so complicated, and how Kacey's own understanding of cults changed through listening to survivors.

It's a fascinating conversation that challenges some of the assumptions we might have about who joins cults, why they stay, and whether we would really recognise one if we encountered it ourselves.

Because perhaps the most uncomfortable question is this: could it happen to you?

You can find more from Kacey, including Cult Vault's episode archive and support resources for anyone affected by coercive control or cult involvement, at cultvaultpodcast.com.

Join us as we take you back under the barrier tape.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.