The Economist's Mike Bird Debates Noah on Industrial Policy
Today we’re publishing a debate about industrial policy between Noah and Mike Bird, the Asia business and finance editor at The Economist. Noah highlights the importance of steering the economy to ensure that industries align with national goals and priorities. Bird questions the effectiveness of industrial policy, especially in developed countries. He argues that market forces and competition should determine the allocation of resources, rather than government intervention. Where do you stand? If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/turpentine We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- Sponsors: GIVEWELL | DAFFY | NETSUITE Have you ever wondered where your donation could have the most impact? GiveWell has now spent over 15 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities they’ve found in global health and poverty alleviation. Make informed decisions about high-impact giving. If you’ve never donated through GiveWell before, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match, go to givewell.org and pick “Podcast” and enter Econ 102 at checkout. Daffy is the most modern and accessible donor-advised fund, making it easier to put money aside for charity. You can make your tax-deductible contributions all at once or set aside a little each week or month. And you don’t just have to donate cash, you can easily contribute stocks, ETFs, or crypto. Plus, you never have to track receipts from your donations again. It’s free to get started and Econ 102 listeners get $25 towards the charity of their choice. Daffy is offering Econ 102 listeners a free $25 for the charity of their choice when they join Daffy https://www.daffy.org/econ102 NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. -- Econ 102 is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:23) How this debate came about (02:25) Why doesn’t The Economist have bylines? (04:55) Chris Odendahl of The Economist’s article saying the focus on manufacturing policy is a delusion (09:15) Is Korea the paragon of industrial policy? (11:20) Overlooking military spending and the chip industry (15:19) Industrial policy crucial for national security (17:42) Sponsor: NetSuite (18:45) Gish Gallop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop (19:14) Complexity of policy implementation (20:30) The exercise metaphor: multiple benefits (29:34) Subsidies may not ensure resilience (40:33) Balancing goals in geopolitics (43:40) Carbon pricing (51:45) Manufacturing jobs (53:35) Leveraging local multipliers (agglomeration effects) (1:00:56) Industrial policy can have multiple benefits (1:03:02) Local multipliers benefit economic activity (1:09:24) Need for rigorous economic analysis (1:19:27) Determined optimism drives progress (1:20:05) Friend-shoring is often highly preferable to reshoring -- TWITTER: @birdyword (Mike) @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) -- This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
15 Aug 20231h 22min
Higher Ed, Being a Dorm Room Socrates, and the American Workforce
In episode 5, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss the promise and failings of higher education, working class economic prospects, the American healthcare system, and more. Noah’s articles are linked below. Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- Sponsors: GIVEWELL | DAFFY | NETSUITE Have you ever wondered where your donation could have the most impact? GiveWell has now spent over 15 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities they’ve found in global health and poverty alleviation. Make informed decisions about high-impact giving. If you’ve never donated through GiveWell before, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match, go to givewell.org and pick “Podcast” and enter Econ 102 at checkout. Daffy is the most modern and accessible donor-advised fund, making it easier to put money aside for charity. You can make your tax-deductible contributions all at once or set aside a little each week or month. And you don’t just have to donate cash, you can easily contribute stocks, ETFs, or crypto. Plus, you never have to track receipts from your donations again. It’s free to get started and Econ 102 listeners get $25 towards the charity of their choice. Daffy is offering Econ 102 listeners a free $25 for the charity of their choice when they join Daffy https://www.daffy.org/econ102 NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode preview (01:23) How Noah joined, and then left academia (04:29) The current state of universities (09:30) Universities should invest in student companies indirectly (11:03) Why Americans are falling out of love with college (15:37) What stopped colleges from being able to provide a job and intellectual fulfillment (15:48) Sponsor: NetSuite (19:55) It's not harder for the average non-college educated American to get jobs nowadays (22:00) Michigan's rust belt (24:08) Was populism driven by economic or socio-cultural factors? (26:23) Is the working class grievance justified? (29:00) Why we don't have a healthcare system like Japan or Korea's (31:42) Healthcare and housing instead of UBI (36:45) Expectations around higher ed (41:00) Why aren't employers starting their own universities? (43:50) Custom training programs for big corporations (45:57) What higher education will look like a decade from now -- LINKS: Americans are Falling Out of Love with the Idea of College https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/americans-are-falling-out-of-love -- X / TWITTER: @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) -- This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
8 Aug 202351min
California Land Use, The Best American City, San Francisco Politics, and more with Dan Romero
Noah Smith guests on the Moment of Zen podcast (hosted by his Econ 102 co-host Erik Torenberg and founder Dan Romero) to discuss California land use, housing, politics, policing, and more. Subscribe to listen to Moment of Zen, a weekly show about tech, business, and culture, wherever you listen to podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/moz We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- SPONSOR: NetSuite provides financial software for all your business needs. More than thirty-six thousand companies have already upgraded to NetSuite, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform ✅ NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/turpentine and defer payments of a FULL NetSuite implementation for six months. -- Econ 102 and Moment of Zen are part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:07) Antonio as Dennis Rodman (02:05) The left and right version of “it’s time to build” i.e. Ezra Klein vs Marc Andreessen (04:50) California skewed political identities (07:00) California vs Texas GOP stance on immigration (09:30) Should Gary Tan strategize from the left or the right, structurally (11:11) Can the Asian block become a machine in SF? In California? (12:50) Is LA better run than SF? (17:40) What’s the best run city in the US? (22:15) Best format for affordable housing in cities (26:30) California is a class society based on land (28:40) House-rich progressives in California (31:00) Prop 13, property tax, and SALT debates (39:30) The tide of YIMBYism (51:10) Effective building in Japan (58:00) YIMBY movement in SF lost because of crime (59:00) The future of San Francisco (01:09:00) Policing (01:16:00) WWII and the atom bomb (01:22:00) Will patriotism come back? (01:25:00) Biggest misconception about Japan? -- LINKS: Noah's Substack https://www.noahpinion.blog/ Book Recommendation on Prop 13: Golden Gates https://www.amazon.com/Golden-Gates-Fighting-Housing-America/dp/0525560211 -- X / TWITTER: @noahpinion (Noah) @dwr (Dan) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @moz_podcast -- This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
1 Aug 20231h 31min
China’s Housing Bubble, Healthcare Crisis, and Taiwan Relations
In episode 3, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg track China's housing bubble, its healthcare crisis, and Taiwan in relation to China and Japan. Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- Sponsors: GIVEWELL | DAFFY | NETSUITE Have you ever wondered where your donation could have the most impact? GiveWell has now spent over 15 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities they’ve found in global health and poverty alleviation. Make informed decisions about high-impact giving. If you’ve never donated through GiveWell before, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match, go to givewell.org and pick “Podcast” and enter Econ 102 at checkout. Daffy is the most modern and accessible donor-advised fund, making it easier to put money aside for charity. You can make your tax-deductible contributions all at once or set aside a little each week or month. And you don’t just have to donate cash, you can easily contribute stocks, ETFs, or crypto. Plus, you never have to track receipts from your donations again. It’s free to get started and Econ 102 listeners get $25 towards the charity of their choice. Daffy is offering Econ 102 listeners a free $25 for the charity of their choice when they join Daffy https://www.daffy.org/econ102 NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:20) Metabanter and how Noah TA'ed Erik's Econ 102 class (02:41) Overview of China's economy (05:11) Why are we seeing a slowdown in China's growth? (07:13) The US housing bubble compared to China's (10:03) What are the concerns around China's real estate? (13:28) Evergrande, the Lehman Brothers of China (15:08) Predictions for the next few years of China's economy (17:02) What does China's slowdown mean for their position in the world at large? (18:19) China's demographics in a decade (21:36) US-China relations (25:01) US vs China's defence capabilities (27:54) Noah's plan for dealing with China (32:24) The political coalition preserving regulations (33:40) What should China be doing to course correct? (37:24) China's calculus about Taiwan (38:53) Japan's views on Taiwan and China (41:30) One Belt One Road Initiative and Xi Jinping's Legacy -- SPONSOR THIS PODCAST: We're looking for sponsors to partner with on this show. If you or your business might be interested, send us a note at erik@turpentine.co. Find out more here: https://www.turpentine.co/sponsors This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
25 Jul 202347min
Why Libertarianism Fragmented, How the Right Became Statist, and Culture Wars
In episode 2, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg track the fracturing of the Libertarian movement, the culture wars, and which ideas deserve not to die. We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- Sponsors: GIVEWELL | DAFFY | NETSUITE Have you ever wondered where your donation could have the most impact? GiveWell has now spent over 15 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities they’ve found in global health and poverty alleviation. Make informed decisions about high-impact giving. If you’ve never donated through GiveWell before, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match, go to givewell.org and pick “Podcast” and enter Econ 102 at checkout. Daffy is the most modern and accessible donor-advised fund, making it easier to put money aside for charity. You can make your tax-deductible contributions all at once or set aside a little each week or month. And you don’t just have to donate cash, you can easily contribute stocks, ETFs, or crypto. Plus, you never have to track receipts from your donations again. It’s free to get started and Econ 102 listeners get $25 towards the charity of their choice. Daffy is offering Econ 102 listeners a free $25 for the charity of their choice when they join Daffy https://www.daffy.org/econ102 NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. -- Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode preview (12:54) Why did Libertarians lose? (15:00) Free trade failure in the 2000s (19:00) Libertarians jumping on the Trump train (19:45) Evolution to state-capacity libertarian (22:00) Culture wars vs. getting the economics right (27:30) Effect of money on politics (29:00) Urban fragmentation: San Francisco and New York (30:30) Hot take: Gavin Newsom underrated (37:00) How the right soured on the free markets and became became statist (39:00) Can a 'reset' work (40:20) Which ideas deserve not to die? -- SPONSOR THIS PODCAST: We're looking for sponsors to partner with on this show. If you or your business might be interested, send us a note at erik@turpentine.co. Find out more here: https://www.turpentine.co/sponsors -- LINKS MENTIONED: Where Does Libertarianism Go From Here? https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/where-does-libertarianism-go-from Tyler Cowen, State-Capacity Libertarianism https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/01/what-libertarianism-has-become-and-will-become-state-capacity-libertarianism.html -- TWITTER: @noahpinion (Noah) @eriktorenberg (Erik) -- This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
18 Jul 202351min
Foreign Policy, Industrial Policy, and Reflections on Biden thus far
In our first episode of Econ 102, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss the highs and lows of Biden's first term, Biden's policies in comparison to previous presidents and other leaders, as well as China -- its real estate sector, industrial and manufacturing industries, and its views on tech. We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com. -- Sponsors: GIVEWELL | DAFFY | NETSUITE Have you ever wondered where your donation could have the most impact? GiveWell has now spent over 15 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to the highest impact opportunities they’ve found in global health and poverty alleviation. Make informed decisions about high-impact giving. If you’ve never donated through GiveWell before, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match, go to givewell.org and pick “Podcast” and enter Econ 102 at checkout. Daffy is the most modern and accessible donor-advised fund, making it easier to put money aside for charity. You can make your tax-deductible contributions all at once or set aside a little each week or month. And you don’t just have to donate cash, you can easily contribute stocks, ETFs, or crypto. Plus, you never have to track receipts from your donations again. It’s free to get started and Econ 102 listeners get $25 towards the charity of their choice. Daffy is offering Econ 102 listeners a free $25 for the charity of their choice when they join Daffy https://www.daffy.org/econ102 NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you’re looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite http://netsuite.com/102 and download your own customized KPI checklist. -- Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:24) Overview of Biden's first term (02:56) The most important thing Biden's done (12:19) What are the chances of Trump returning? (14:03) In the 1970s once again (14:47) Woke concerns among Republicans (15:38) Noah's ideal foreign policy (17:46) Japan's importance in foreign policy (19:29) Main foreign policy concerns in the next cycle (20:30) The ideal containment strategy (22:55) China (26:23) Getting to 1 billion Americans as a foreign policy measure (27:24) Real estate in China (31:33) Comparing and contrasting Chinese and American industrial policy (37:02) China's stomp on the IT industry to encourage manufacturing (39:09) The difference in Chinese and American views of manufacturing (43:18) Revitalizing American manufacturing (46:08) The services industry (48:03) A shortage of human truckers -- SPONSOR THIS PODCAST: We're looking for sponsors to partner with on this show. If you or your business might be interested, send us a note at erik@turpentine.co. Find out more here: https://www.turpentine.co/sponsors This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.
11 Jul 202352min
