Dwarkesh and Noah Smith on AGI and the Economy

Dwarkesh and Noah Smith on AGI and the Economy

In this episode, Erik Torenberg is joined in the studio by Dwarkesh Patel and Noah Smith to explore one of the biggest questions in tech: what exactly is artificial general intelligence (AGI), and how close are we to achieving it?

They break down:

  • Competing definitions of AGI — economic vs. cognitive vs. “godlike”
  • Why reasoning alone isn’t enough — and what capabilities models still lack
  • The debate over substitution vs. complementarity between AI and human labor
  • What an AI-saturated economy might look like — from growth projections to UBI, sovereign wealth funds, and galaxy-colonizing robots
  • How AGI could reshape global power, geopolitics, and the future of work

Along the way, they tackle failed predictions, surprising AI limitations, and the philosophical and economic consequences of building machines that think, and perhaps one day, act, like us.

Timecodes:

0:00 Intro

0:33 Defining AGI and General Intelligence

2:38 Human and AI Capabilities Compared

7:00 AI Replacing Jobs and Shifting Employment

15:00 Economic Growth Trajectories After AGI

17:15 Consumer Demand in an AI-Driven Economy

31:00 Redistribution, UBI, and the Future of Income

31:58 Human Roles and the Evolving Meaning of Work

41:21 Technology, Society, and the Human Future

45:43 AGI Timelines and Forecasting Horizons

54:04 The Challenge of Predicting AI's Path

57:37 Nationalization, Geopolitics, and the Global AI Race

1:07:10 Brand and Network Effects in AI Dominance

1:09:31 Final Thoughts

Resources:

Find Dwarkesh on X: https://x.com/dwarkesh_sp

Find Dwarkesh on YT: https://www.youtube.com/c/DwarkeshPatel

Subscribe to Dwarkesh’s Substack: https://www.dwarkesh.com/

Find Noah on X: https://x.com/noahpinion

Subscribe to Noah’s Substack: https://www.noahpinion.blog/

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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.

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Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.


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Episoder(963)

Is AI Slowing Down? Nathan Labenz Says We're Asking the Wrong Question

Is AI Slowing Down? Nathan Labenz Says We're Asking the Wrong Question

Nathan Labenz is one of the clearest voices analyzing where AI is headed, pairing sharp technical analysis with his years of work on The Cognitive Revolution.In this episode, Nathan joins a16z’s Erik Torenberg to ask a pressing question: is AI progress actually slowing down, or are we just getting used to the breakthroughs? They discuss the debate over GPT-5, the state of reasoning and automation, the future of agents and engineering work, and how we can build a positive vision for where AI goes next. Resources:Follow Nathan on X: https://x.com/labenzListen to the Cognitive Revolution: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSykWatch Cognitive Revolution: https://www.youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!Find a16z on X: https://x.com/a16zFind a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16zListen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYXListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenbergPlease note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Podcast on SpotifyListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

14 Okt 1h 31min

Columbia CS Professor: Why LLMs Can’t Discover New Science

Columbia CS Professor: Why LLMs Can’t Discover New Science

From GPT-1 to GPT-5, LLMs have made tremendous progress in modeling human language. But can they go beyond that to make new discoveries and move the needle on scientific progress?We sat down with distinguished Columbia CS professor Vishal Misra to discuss this, plus why chain-of-thought reasoning works so well, what real AGI would look like, and what actually causes hallucinations. Resources:Follow Dr. Misra on X: https://x.com/vishalmisraFollow Martin on X: https://x.com/martin_casado Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!Find a16z on X: https://x.com/a16zFind a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16zListen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYXListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenbergPlease note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Podcast on SpotifyListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

13 Okt 50min

Monitoring the Situation #3: Who Is Nick Land?

Monitoring the Situation #3: Who Is Nick Land?

Zach Dell is founder and CEO of Base Power, an energy tech company that builds affordable, reliable power via home batteries.In this episode of Monitoring the Situation, a16z General Partners Erik Torenberg, Katherine Boyle, and Erin Price-Wright sit down with Zach to discuss the current state of home power generation, what’s misunderstood about the data center buildout, and how to fix the US electricity grid. Plus, Erik and Katherine talk with a16z crypto CTO Eddy Lazzarin about Silicon Valley’s favorite Dark Enlightenment philosopher, Nick Land. Resources:Follow Katherine on X: https://x.com/KTmBoyleFollow Eddy on X: https://x.com/eddylazzarinFollow Zach on X: https://x.com/ZachBDellLearn more about Base Power: https://www.basepowercompany.com/Learn more about Nick Land: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/who-is-nick-land Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!Follow a16z on X: https://x.com/a16zSubscribe to a16z on Substack: https://a16z.substack.com/Follow a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16zListen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYXListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenbergPlease note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Podcast on SpotifyListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

12 Okt 52min

Sam Altman on Sora, Energy, and Building an AI Empire

Sam Altman on Sora, Energy, and Building an AI Empire

Sam Altman has led OpenAI from its founding as a research nonprofit in 2015 to becoming the most valuable startup in the world ten years later.In this episode, a16z Cofounder Ben Horowitz and General Partner Erik Torenberg sit down with Sam to discuss the core thesis behind OpenAI’s disparate bets, why they released Sora, how they use models internally, the best AI evals, and where we’re going from here. Resources:Follow Sam on X: https://x.com/samaFollow OpenAI on X: https://x.com/openaiLearn more about OpenAI: https://openai.com/Try Sora: https://sora.com/Follow Ben on X: https://x.com/bhorowitz Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!Find a16z on X: https://x.com/a16zFind a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16zListen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYXListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenbergPlease note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Podcast on SpotifyListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

8 Okt 48min

How to Build a Real Estate Marketplace - Kaz Nejatian, Opendoor CEO

How to Build a Real Estate Marketplace - Kaz Nejatian, Opendoor CEO

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7 Okt 55min

Can the US Beat China’s Engineering State?

Can the US Beat China’s Engineering State?

From high-speed rail to electric cars to batteries to AI, it’s clear that China can operate with incredible speed at massive scale. Can the US still compete?We sat down with Dan Wang, a Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future” to discuss. Timecodes: 0:00  Introduction1:36   Lawyers vs. Engineers: Cultural and Economic Differences4:06  Urban and Rural Life: Comparing Infrastructure7:20  Barriers to Progress: Regulation and Governance11:00  Industrial Policy and Public-Private Partnerships14:20  The Double-Edged Sword of Legal and Engineering Mindsets16:50  Social Engineering and Policy in China23:00  Competition, Intellectual Property, and Business Culture27:10  Manufacturing, Scale, and Global Supply Chains36:00  Lessons from Japan and Korea41:30  Complacency, Quality, and the Future of Competition48:45  Strategic Resources and Industrial Policy54:00  Foreign Policy: Engineering Diplomacy vs. Alliances59:00  Taiwan, Demographics, and the Future of US-China Relations Resources:Follow Dan on X: https://x.com/danwwangRead Dan’s blog: https://danwang.co/Buy Breakneck on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1324106034/Follow Steven on X: https://x.com/stevesi Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Podcast on SpotifyListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

6 Okt 1h 3min

Monitoring the Situation #2: Alana Newhouse

Monitoring the Situation #2: Alana Newhouse

Two trends in media have been abundantly clear since 2020: legacy media is dying, and independent media is rising.a16z General Partners Erik Torenberg and Katherine Boyle sit down with Tablet founder and editor-in-chief Alana Newhouse to discuss the great media realignment, why real institutions will outlast the new “internet pirates", Alana’s deeply personal case for gene editing, and how faith, science, and community can coexist without giving in to government referees. Resources:Read Tablet magazine: https://www.tabletmag.com/Follow Alana on X: https://x.com/alananewhouseFollow Tablet on X: https://x.com/tabletmagFollow Katherine on X: https://x.com/KTmBoyle Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!Find a16z on X: https://x.com/a16zFind a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16zListen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYXListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenbergPlease note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Podcast on SpotifyListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

5 Okt 58min

Software is Eating Labor

Software is Eating Labor

Software has fundamentally changed the way we record, store, and share information. Its next act is to fundamentally change the nature of our economy, capturing trillions of dollars of value in the process.In this talk from the 2025 a16z LP Summit, a16z General Partner Alex Rampell discusses the history of filing cabinets and databases, how SaaS pricing moved from seats to outcomes, and how AI agents will accelerate the trend of the last 70 years of software progress. Timecodes: 0:00 Introduction0:58 The Scale of the Labor Market vs. SaaS  1:41 Capital, Labor, and Automation: A Historical Perspective  3:32 The Filing Cabinet Metaphor: Digitizing Work  3:50 Case Studies: From Airlines to Accounting  8:42 The Limits of Efficiency: Humans Still in the Loop  9:02 Rethinking SaaS Pricing Models  10:21 The Impact of AI on Labor and Software  11:41 Outcome-Based Software: Moving Beyond the Filing Cabinet  17:41 Real-World Examples: AI in Action  22:05 The Expanding Market: New Opportunities with AI  25:44 Conclusion and Takeaways  25:48 Podcast Outro and Disclaimers Resources: Follow Alex on X: https://x.com/arampell Stay Updated: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!Find a16z on X: https://x.com/a16zFind a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16zListen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYXListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenbergPlease note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Podcast on SpotifyListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

3 Okt 26min

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