#239 – Rose Hadshar on why automating all human labour will break our political system

#239 – Rose Hadshar on why automating all human labour will break our political system

The most important political question in the age of advanced AI might not be who wins elections. It might be whether elections continue to matter at all.

That’s the view of Rose Hadshar, researcher at Forethought, who believes we could see extreme, AI-enabled power concentration without a coup or dramatic ‘end of democracy’ moment.

She foresees something more insidious: an elite group with access to such powerful AI capabilities that the normal mechanisms for checking elite power — law, elections, public pressure, the threat of strikes — cease to have much effect. Those mechanisms could continue to exist on paper, but become ineffectual in a world where humans are no longer needed to execute even the largest-scale projects.

Almost nobody wants this to happen — but we may find ourselves unable to prevent it.

If AI disrupts our ability to make sense of things, will we even notice power getting severely concentrated, or be able to resist it? Once AI can substitute for human labour across the economy, what leverage will citizens have over those in power? And what does all of this imply for the institutions we’re relying on to prevent the worst outcomes?

Rose has answers, and they’re not all reassuring.

But she’s also hopeful we can make society more robust against these dynamics. We’ve got literally centuries of thinking about checks and balances to draw on. And there are some interventions she’s excited about — like building sophisticated AI tools for making sense of the world, or ensuring multiple branches of government have access to the best AI systems.

Rose discusses all of this, and more, with host Zershaaneh Qureshi in today’s episode.

Links to learn more, video, and full transcript: https://80k.info/rh

This episode was recorded on December 18, 2025.

Chapters:

  • Cold open (00:00:00)
  • Who's Rose Hadshar? (00:01:05)
  • Three dynamics that could reshape political power in the AI era (00:02:37)
  • AI gives small groups the productive power of millions (00:12:49)
  • Dynamic 1: When a software update becomes a power grab (00:20:41)
  • Dynamic 2: When AI labour means governments no longer need their citizens (00:31:20)
  • How democracy could persist in name but not substance (00:45:15)
  • Dynamic 3: When AI filters our reality (00:54:54)
  • Good intentions won't stop power concentration (01:08:27)
  • Slower-moving worlds could still get scary (01:23:57)
  • Why AI-powered tyranny will be tough to topple (01:31:53)
  • How power concentration compares to "gradual disempowerment" (01:38:18)
  • Some interventions are cross-cutting — and others could backfire (01:43:54)
  • What fighting back actually looks like (01:55:15)
  • Why power concentration researchers should avoid getting too "spicy" (02:04:10)
  • Why the "Manhattan Project" approach should worry you — but truly international projects might not be safe either (02:09:18)
  • Rose wants to keep humans around! (02:12:06)

Video and audio editing: Dominic Armstrong, Milo McGuire, Luke Monsour, and Simon Monsour
Music: CORBIT
Coordination, transcripts, and web: Nick Stockton and Katy Moore

Episoder(333)

#202 – Venki Ramakrishnan on the cutting edge of anti-ageing science

#202 – Venki Ramakrishnan on the cutting edge of anti-ageing science

"For every far-out idea that turns out to be true, there were probably hundreds that were simply crackpot ideas. In general, [science] advances building on the knowledge we have, and seeing what the n...

19 Sep 20242h 20min

#201 – Ken Goldberg on why your robot butler isn’t here yet

#201 – Ken Goldberg on why your robot butler isn’t here yet

"Perception is quite difficult with cameras: even if you have a stereo camera, you still can’t really build a map of where everything is in space. It’s just very difficult. And I know that sounds surp...

13 Sep 20242h 1min

#200 – Ezra Karger on what superforecasters and experts think about existential risks

#200 – Ezra Karger on what superforecasters and experts think about existential risks

"It’s very hard to find examples where people say, 'I’m starting from this point. I’m starting from this belief.' So we wanted to make that very legible to people. We wanted to say, 'Experts think thi...

4 Sep 20242h 49min

#199 – Nathan Calvin on California’s AI bill SB 1047 and its potential to shape US AI policy

#199 – Nathan Calvin on California’s AI bill SB 1047 and its potential to shape US AI policy

"I do think that there is a really significant sentiment among parts of the opposition that it’s not really just that this bill itself is that bad or extreme — when you really drill into it, it feels ...

29 Aug 20241h 12min

#198 – Meghan Barrett on upending everything you thought you knew about bugs in 3 hours

#198 – Meghan Barrett on upending everything you thought you knew about bugs in 3 hours

"This is a group of animals I think people are particularly unfamiliar with. They are especially poorly covered in our science curriculum; they are especially poorly understood, because people don’t s...

26 Aug 20243h 48min

#197 – Nick Joseph on whether Anthropic's AI safety policy is up to the task

#197 – Nick Joseph on whether Anthropic's AI safety policy is up to the task

The three biggest AI companies — Anthropic, OpenAI, and DeepMind — have now all released policies designed to make their AI models less likely to go rogue or cause catastrophic damage as they approach...

22 Aug 20242h 29min

#196 – Jonathan Birch on the edge cases of sentience and why they matter

#196 – Jonathan Birch on the edge cases of sentience and why they matter

"In the 1980s, it was still apparently common to perform surgery on newborn babies without anaesthetic on both sides of the Atlantic. This led to appalling cases, and to public outcry, and to campaign...

15 Aug 20242h 1min

#195 – Sella Nevo on who's trying to steal frontier AI models, and what they could do with them

#195 – Sella Nevo on who's trying to steal frontier AI models, and what they could do with them

"Computational systems have literally millions of physical and conceptual components, and around 98% of them are embedded into your infrastructure without you ever having heard of them. And an inordin...

1 Aug 20242h 8min

Populært innen Fakta

fastlegen
dine-penger-pengeradet
relasjonspodden-med-dora-thorhallsdottir-kjersti-idem
rss-strid-de-norske-borgerkrigene
foreldreradet
mikkels-paskenotter
treningspodden
rss-bisarr-historie
jakt-og-fiskepodden
rss-sunn-okonomi
sinnsyn
tomprat-med-gunnar-tjomlid
rss-kunsten-a-leve
hagespiren-podcast
rss-bak-luftfarten
ukast
fryktlos
hverdagspsyken
rss-mind-body-podden
gravid-uke-for-uke