71: One "Polygamy Denier's" Response to Bill Reel, RFM and Brian Hales | 132 Problems

71: One "Polygamy Denier's" Response to Bill Reel, RFM and Brian Hales | 132 Problems

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

https://www.patreon.com/132Problems


Multiple podcasts hit pretty hard last week against people who have come to believe that polygamy did not originate with Joseph Smith. As has always been the case, although they agree on almost nothing else, both those who hate Joseph Smith and think the worst of him, and those who claim to love him and believe they are following in his name, agree on this one central point -- that polygamy started with Joseph Smith.

Both sides are convinced that theirs is the only tenable position. I disagree.

In this intimidating episode I do my best to lay out the situation as I see it, explain the basics of my "polygamy denying" perspective, and respond directly to the key points of their presentations.


Links:

Saints Unscripted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMj_lxPZIT0&t=1238s

Mormonism Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV3f57VZuqo&t=338s

The Peace Maker: https://archive.org/details/GR_2186/mode/2up?view=theater

Times and Seasons Notice: https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/NCMP1820-1846/id/8401

Oct. 5 Journal Entries: Original: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/journal-december-1842-june-1844-book-3-15-july-1843-29-february-1844/123

Altered for Publication: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/faenrandir/a_careful_examination/d6ee663e933a8cb01b79ddc33fe1232ac3ef12e5/documents/polygamy/oct5-1843/original-journal-entry-anonymous.jpg

After Alterations: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-e-1-1-july-1843-30-april-1844/118

Hyrum's April 8, 1843 sermon (Thomas Bullock unedited transcript -- removed from JSP): https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/daa151c4-7bae-49d0-8cef-d281a70f1d32/0/32

Same speech after alterations (Still available on JSP, and has already been passed off as the original) https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-e-1-1-july-1843-30-april-1844/356

Joseph Smith's letter to the RS as recorded in the RS Minutes: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/nauvoo-relief-society-minute-book/108#full-transcript

Same letter after alterations: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-emma-smith-and-the-relief-society-31-march-1842/3#full-transcript

Joseph's letter to Parley Pratt about keeping families together: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-parley-p-pratt-and-others-12-june-1842/1#full-transcript

Brigham Young, Sept 21, 1856, JoD vol. 4, pp. 51-57

Heber C. Kimball, Nov. 9, 1856, JoD vol. 4, pp. 80-83

Rob Fotheringham's Happiness Letter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWD1XwVr6AA&t=1204s

Melissa Lott Family Bible: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/7226d36f-b3a5-4c0e-9d0c-33d87d46ffb4/0/3

Michael Shirmer Ted Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_6-iVz1R0o

Avsnitt(167)

137: The Value of Engagement Across Ideologies

137: The Value of Engagement Across Ideologies

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems Whitney Documents Episodes: (Links to all documents in episode descriptions) Part 3 - The Blessing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihu6lyQgvoY&t=123s Part 2 - The Letter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDjURE2udVY Part 1 - The Revelation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC7cMo8kd70&t=2s Journal of Mormon Polygamy Announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j61m9U0WBS4&t=6s

22 Sep 20241h 9min

136: Whitney Documents, Pt. 3 - Blessing to Sarah Ann

136: Whitney Documents, Pt. 3 - Blessing to Sarah Ann

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems Blessing to Sarah Ann Whitney https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/blessing-to-sarah-ann-whitney-23-march-1843/1 Rob Fotheringham: "Evaluation of 1842 Whitney 'Revelation' " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HheHqg4c3HQ

15 Sep 20241h 53min

135: Whitney Documents, Part 2 – The Letter

135: Whitney Documents, Part 2 – The Letter

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems The collection often referred to as "the Whitney documents," which includes contemporary sources written in Joseph's own hand, is generally considered to be the strongest evidence of Joseph's polygamy. Recently multiple historians I have engaged with have gone directly to the Whitney documents to explain to me why the history of Joseph's polygamy is settled. I strongly disagree with them. But, I realized I needed to directly address the Whitney documents to explain why I and many others do not see the Whitney collection as evidence of Joseph's polygamy -- but instead as evidence of something very different. Links: Emma's efforts to avoid being followed to Joseph's hiding place https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/journal-december-1841-december-1842/36 Joseph's letter to Emma, August 16, 1842 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-emma-smith-16-august-1842/1 Emma's response to Joseph, August 16, 1842 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-from-emma-smith-16-august-1842/1 Joseph's letter to the Whitneys, August 18, 1842 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/letter-to-newel-k-elizabeth-ann-smith-and-sarah-ann-whitney-18-august-1842/1 Emma's letters to the governor: https://ensignpeakfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/The-Lady-and-the-Governor-Emma-Hale-Smith%E2%80%99s-and-Thomas-Carlin%E2%80%99s-1842-Correspondence.pdf

8 Sep 20242h 20min

134: Gwendolyn Wyne Is Telling Our Best Story

134: Gwendolyn Wyne Is Telling Our Best Story

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems Intro to Gwendolyn's latest video, "Our Best Story": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7atQ07NVd4c Watch full video: "Our Best Story" - Polygamy: An Enemy Has Done This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYuOTM7YWxU Hemlock Knots - excellent church history resource https://hemlockknots.com/

1 Sep 20242h 10min

133: Women React to Mormon Land - Part Two

133: Women React to Mormon Land - Part Two

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems Mormon Land podcast episode 345: Did Joseph Smith Practice Polygamy? https://soundcloud.com/mormonland/did-joseph-smith-practice-polygamy https://open.spotify.com/episode/5h56v6PacWQW0SVuw4Q4H8?go=1&sp_cid=4032595e46cd4d53032062d8bc47f507&nd=1&dlsi=542a62d9ec144f74

25 Aug 20243h 20min

132: Updates, the Temple, and A Way Forward

132: Updates, the Temple, and A Way Forward

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems John Whitmer Historical Association Conference, Sept. 12-15, 2024 Michelle to present on Friday, Sept. 13 - Register here: https://www.jwha.info/2024-annual-conference/ Red Brick Store Correspondence w/ Church Leaders/Employees: https://132problems.org/the-mural-in-the-red-brick-store/ Remembering Emma Conference Day 1 (Michelle starts @ 3:03:25) https://youtu.be/s_fekFvqxYM?t=11004

18 Aug 20241h 37min

131: Discussing Jacob 2 with Steve Reed of OneClimbs

131: Discussing Jacob 2 with Steve Reed of OneClimbs

Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems OneClimbs.com https://oneclimbs.com/ https://oneclimbs.com/2017/01/05/a-proposed-reinterpretation-of-jacob-230/ Joseph Fought Polygamy, by Richard and Pamela Price https://restorationbookstore.org/pages/joseph-smith-fought-polygamy-online

11 Aug 20242h 9min

130: Women React to Mormon Land w/ Matt Bowman and Brooke LeFevre

130: Women React to Mormon Land w/ Matt Bowman and Brooke LeFevre

Mormon Land recently followed-up the Matt Bowman's Salt Lake Tribune article with an interview of Matt and Brooke LeFevre discussing the growing numbers of "Mormon types" who no longer believe Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. Join us as we discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly of this interview. Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24 Patreon.com/132problems Judge Phillips Temple Lot Decision: https://archive.org/details/decisionofjohnfp00philrich/page/n7/mode/2up

4 Aug 20243h 7min

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